Discussion: Strong Female Characters

[strangetomato]

This is mostly for will_o_whisper, since we've had many a deep, meaningful conversation on the topic (and the same goes for beyondheroism__ and smjoshsims), but I thought it might be of interest to a number of you that I can thing of offhand, and maybe even more. It's this article from the latest metafandom post, titled Ladies, Please (Carry On Being Awesome) by sarahtales. It's more discussion on the idea that we hold female characters up to a different standard than male characters. There's also a link to another article within that one about the Bechdel test, which includes lists of series/stories that pass it (even mentioning videogames such as FFVI, an old favourite of mine).

In particular, I love the example of "Harriet Potter" from this article. Wouldn't Harry most likely have been universally loathed if he were a female protagonist? I really think there's a lot of truth in that. I'm reminded of our conversation on the same topic (Will_o and I), where I mentioned that I thought my take on Frances J. Worthington III would most likely be received very differently if he were female. We (female consumers of stories, more specifically) seem to have a much higher tolerance for bullshit from male characters. Being selffish, whiny, brooding, and/or shy (not to mention the other extreme of assertive, aka bitchy) take on a whole different flavour when the character is a female.

The Sims 2 is more limited when it comes to actual storylines for characters, given that it's an open-ended videogame where you're only given a backstory, but I think it does give us some good examples of strong female characters (depending on how you take them, since it places the gamer in the driver's seat). We are pretty lacking in a female equivalent of Don Lothario, though (there are female romance sims, but none that are linked to so many lovers, with a fiance and all), and I wonder if the term golddigger would even come up if Dina Caliente were male and Mortimer were female. Heheh - imagine that! (How do people relate to that gender-switched Plesantview you can download from MATY? The idea intrigues me, in that it really shouldn't make that much of a difference, should it? But it does.)

Personally, I'm just as interested in "weak" female characters, because the idea of all female characters having to be completely in control and kickass (but not too kickass) is very limiting and also unrealistic. By "strong", I mean well-developed and rounded, for better or worse. Like the author of the article, my own beef with the whole concept presented in the example of the female Harry Potter is that the dominant parameters for a strong female character are often very limiting. I want to see all kinds of female characters, especially weak and messy ones, shown in a sympathetic light. And maybe even as the main character, once in a while.

ETA: Same goes for female villains. I love a good ruthless female bad guy, but I guess that's sort of obvious by now.

 

Anyway, I thought it might be of interest to some of you. Feel free to discuss in the comments, if ya wanna.

Comments

[cameoflage.livejournal.com]

Random assemblance of thoughts:

a) I'll confess to not liking Ophelia as much as Ripp and Johnny, but I don't think her gender has much to do with that. (But I don't have a problem with her either, and J/R/O would implode if she disappeared.) Rather, I prefer characters whose personalities are obvious rather than subtle (not the same thing as the character themself being an outgoing sort, or being insufficiently nuanced). It's easy to describe Ripp, but with Ophelia I find myself having to fumble around for descriptions. I think this is because it takes a certain lack of subtlety to break through my barrier of passive obliviousness, to be honest, but... yeah.

b) I don't think I'd have a problem with She-Frances. At first I thought "hmmm, yeah, I do find whiny female characters more annoying than whiny male characters", but I don't think that's actually the case, on reflection. My reaction to whiny/emo/brooding/what-have-you characters has more to do with the precise nature of their emo -- some are genuinely tragic, others are just whiny and angsty -- than whether they're male or female.

c) I can generally avoid treating one sex better than the other or thinking of them in such a way, but there are certain character types that are nearly always men/women and that it's very strange to see filled by women/men. (For example: I can sorta picture a female Ripp, but she'd have to be a pretty masculine woman, by definition. A feminine she-Ripp wouldn't be compatible with the character type.)

d) I like pie.

[autumnparanoia.livejournal.com]

This.

But I prefer cake.

[cameoflage.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I prefer cake as well... it's just that "pie" is a funnier word. (And you can't make jokes about cake without callbacks to Portal, which is a plus for some and a minus for others.)