Again with the gender thing...

[strangetomato]

Gender is weird, huh?

I've noticed that people on lj (and other places online, I assume) tend to make something of an issue out of people getting their gender wrong. Someone made a secret about me at one point, saying that they always thought I was a guy, and I wonder how they thought I was going to react to that. I don't really care. If anything, I think it's nice to be anonymously without gender on the internet, and I usually don't select a gender when given the option in profiles and such. If people don't know, then you don't have any of the baggage that comes with it. It's the same reason I use SO instead of husband. Husband feels like such a loaded term to me.

I see people rushing to correct people when they get the gender of a simmer wrong, whether it's themselves or someone else. I notice, too, that it's always males. That's not surprising. It makes sense, given the predominantly female nature of the sims fandom (and fandom in general). We're going to assume y'all have ovaries unless we're told the difference. But why is it so important to correct people?

I was curious about it, so I thought I'd ask (rather than make a simsecret or some such nonsense). For those of you that have done it (and I know a number of people on my flist that have), why do you feel the need to inform people that you or someone else is a male? Note that I'm not here to pick a fight or anything of the sort. I'd just like to hear your side of it.

(Oh, and... for the record, fanseelamb is a female. :P This one seems to come up over and over again.)

And another thing...

I've always been one of those people that tries to be conscious of the gendered messages I give to children in the way I talk to them, like not telling girl's they're "pretty" while telling boys they're "smart" and crap like that (which people do ALL of the time, if you listen to them), but then I noticed I was treating Petey (my first male cat) in a distinctly different way than his big "sister," Suki. How much of that is personality, and how much of that is me projecting? (He's a total Momma's boy, by the way. :P) It's crazy how we slip into these things. The cats are both spayed/neutered, so it's not like they even have any sex-based behaviours to speak of. And they're cats! Do they even have gender?

What do you think? Have any thoughts or interesting stories to share?

Comments

[trippytexan.livejournal.com]

I friend of mine takes advantage of both the conscious assumption that female WoW players are rare and the unconscious assumption that if you're playing a female character you're probably female. Those are contradicting assumptions, which makes for some weird interactions.The idea that women in WoW are rare makes them a "hot commodity" for some of the more socially awkward boys, and when those boys encounter a female character they're often very intent on treating the player as a female until proven otherwise, just in case.

My friend plays his female characters as female (saying typically girlish things like "That's cute!" or having an adorable pet follow him around, for example) and some guys will just fall all over themselves to give him money and take him on runs. As someone who typically tries to downplay my female-ness in most situations, I find that kind of manipulation to be very weird.

[pixelcurious.livejournal.com]

I would say your reaction is on target. That IS weird. It's weird when women do it on purpose to get gold and runs. And it's weird that a man would pretend to be a woman to get gold and runs.

I thought those kinds of arrangements generally involved at least some flirting or coquettish behavior. Does your friend toy with his victims? Have any of them ever found out he's really male?

[trippytexan.livejournal.com]

He says he doesn't "flirt" but some things can be taken the wrong way by naive kids, and really there's no telling what goes on in private chats. I do know that he won't outright lie-- when he's directly asked if he's a girl, he says no and acts all shocked that someone thought he was. It's just strange because that kind of behavior doesn't sit well with me, but also in real life this guy is normally very kind and progressive.

[meetme2theriver.livejournal.com]

I might be a bad person, but I think that's actually pretty funny. He's taking advantage of some kids' stereotypical ideas about women and female WoW players. Once they find out that he's actually a dude, maybe they won't be quite as naïve anymore. :P

[strange-tomato.livejournal.com]

It's a "teachable moment." :P BAM — I'm a chick/dude! And then the kids start thinking...

And thinking isn't a bad thing.

(Though manipulating is, so... yeah.)

[pixelcurious.livejournal.com]

It's not necessarily kids. I know a number of socially challenged adult men in WoW (I know, big shocker!) And they probably don't learn anything useful, they probably just react in homophobia. But I might be jaded, too. :P

[strange-tomato.livejournal.com]

I probably said kids instinctively, because after childhood the teaching gets harder and harder. It's sad that so many people stop thinking about things, questioning them, as they get older.

That's why I love talking to kids and aksing them lots of questions. Get it in there while you can! XD

(Edited "thinking about thinks" — LOL!)

[meetme2theriver.livejournal.com]

Kids are naturally inquisitive, but I think they often get taught/are encouraged to not think and question, so eventually they grow up and accept that things are just the way they are. Unfortunately.

[strange-tomato.livejournal.com]

That's very true. It's not always that they are intentially taught that, but they are all the same.

And me jumping in there for a few moments to try to open their minds isn't going to undo all the work of their parents or their peers or society at large, but you never know... sometimes it's the very small little things we remember and it sticks with us.

Obviously, I've chosen to stick with optimism. :P

[meetme2theriver.livejournal.com]

Optimism is a good thing. I wish I was better at it. :P

[strange-tomato.livejournal.com]

It's not always easy, for sure.

[pixelcurious.livejournal.com]

I liked "thinking about thinks" -- when I saw that (in my email notification) I thought it was very clever! xD

[strange-tomato.livejournal.com]

I like to think about thinks. I like to think thinkly things. I'm thnking a think right now. XD

[pixelcurious.livejournal.com]

Oh, I wasn't getting on your case about calling them kids. I think we were talking basically about kids in this sub-thread. But speaking from stuff I've seen in WoW it's often adult males falling into this trap of being manipulated for gold and gear by players who purportedly are female -- I know of one case where I was convinced that the person in question was actually male, until I heard her in Vent, because the stuff she would say was so stereotyped and bad, I didn't think a chick would really stoop that low. *grin*

[strange-tomato.livejournal.com]

Haha. S/he overdid it, did she?

I'm really interested in this idea of sounding like a male or female. The way we talk, or the way we write, can give us away. I've heard a guy say that another guy "sounded gay" because he talked too much. I've heard the idea of more dynamic or musical speech being associated that way, but for this guy, even talking much at all was considered feminine.

It does make a certain amount of sense when you compare it to what's considered masculine in physical movement. "Real men" don't move much. They don't swing their arms when they walk. They don't turn their body one way and their head another.

[pixelcurious.livejournal.com]

I can see the humor in it, too... but it annoys me when women deliberately use their gender to gain advantage, so... it feels like perpetuating the same dynamic, just in an even less honest way.

But in the great scheme of things, it's pretty minor. Not something to twist my knickers over.

[meetme2theriver.livejournal.com]

True. On the other hand, men have an advantage simply by being men, so... (not that that makes it okay, manipulation is generally bad, but yeah).

[nepheris.livejournal.com]

I find it hilarious that some guys actually fall for that. You don't know who's sitting behind that screen steering Astralia the Hot Elf Chick around, is it really that important to look at her pixel boobs that you give him/her money? I just don't get it.

Even when playing female characters in WoW, people assumed I was male anyway. Maybe it's got to do with my attitude or the way I talk online. Never had people shower me with gifts, either :( (then again I didn't go fishing for it)

[ejiamet.livejournal.com]

I find it even more hilarious when men do that because you don't know, if it IS a girl she could be completely hideous. Sure she could be drop dead gorgeous but you don't know one way or another.
Like, when guys hit on me it's like lol, I could be an ugly old troll for all you know.
They could go either way, just thinking GIRL GIRL GIRL, and get excited in the pants just thinking about it, (when listening in vent if someone in a raid finds out I'm a girl, sometimes they'll LITERALLY freak out and be like OMG WE HAVE A GIRL AMONG US) or assume that because I'm a girl who plays WoW I MUST be ugly and/or fat...
On another note I used to get a LOT of private messages asking me if I was a girl. I learned not to answer them and/or lie to them because they always asked me if I wanted to cyber for 30g after I told them. Upon telling some male friends they said they'd totally lie and just do it. LOL!

[ejiamet.livejournal.com]

ALSO! As a horde player I've noticed that more with blood elf chicks than with any other race! Not only when I play my blood elf girl but when I see other people playing them. Ugh men lol :P

[ejiamet.livejournal.com]

Hi! Just poppin in on this conversation :P I'm a lurker, but as I am a female WoW player I couldn't resist.

For one - this video is funny and relates to that topic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQkE7QwzNz4

Heheh :) Also as a female WoW player I've definitely noticed a distinct difference in the way males treat me in-game. Probably has something to do with the fact that I'm open (especially with my guildies) about the fact that I am female, met my SO (their guild master) through WoW and currently pregnant with his child. So they're afraid of my hormones XD but it is more than that as well. In some cases I don't really understand why I get treated much differently just based on my gender (which is sometimes assumed solely because I play female characters). Sometimes their behavior toward me will be very flirtatious but not always.

I've never used my gender as a way to get anything though LOL and my SO plays his main toon as a chick and I've known him to... I think actual males do that more than females do! LOL