Simsecret Discussion

[strangetomato]

Man, it's been a while since I've been so involved in a discussion in simsecret (about warnings for gay content, and how this contributes to homophobia vs. it being a legitimate warning for the "genre" of slash). I don't always jump into the fray of these debates, but gender and sexuality are the topics where I can't help but suit up and yell, "Okay, let's play ball!" :P Yes, you could say they are my pet isms, in the sense that they are the ones I am mostly tuned in to.

If anyone wants to toss out their two cents (or more) here, we can continue the chat. Feel free to discuss and debate among yourselves. Just keep it clean, folks.

ETA: After using the sports metaphor above, I ended up with Centerfield by John Fogerty in my head. Argh! It's like I'm stuck at a family wedding back home in The Cove (name of hometownvillage has been changed to protect the guilty). :P

And I've added a music suggestion to hopefully lighten the mood (and because my SO has amassed something of a Big Fat Gay Music Collection).

Comments

[ladymirrabella.livejournal.com]

*de-lurks*
I've seen this thread, because I'm addicted to all the drama happening in secret communities. I was really glad when most people agreed with the poster, because it is a big problem in the literary world.

Many, many authors all over the internet slap a big warning for slash of m/m or whatever they decide to call it. Let's not forget about the threatening: "if you don't like it, go away you heathen!11!". This is the point I usually click the nifty 'x'. As you all above me mentioned, the real warnings should be for sex, kinky sex, violence, etc., not who is engaging in it. I would even stomach a warning for Harlequin romance, since it's a legitimate one for me ;) . The only place, I could see it, not as a warning, but an information, it's the fanfiction world. Once again someone said it: just mention the people involved and you're done.

This is all an utopian ideal when dealing with the internet - because it's full of bigots, trolls and idiots. They love to be warned for everything existing, so it doesn't shatter their little world. On the other hand, I've seen pretty intelligent people who "accept" (as in tolerate as long it is in the distance of 100m) gays, but shudder when reading about anything mentioning them.

Then, we have the real world, where people also love to stay inside their comfort zones. While there are no warnings slapped on films or books, they are sorted into proper categories and given a higher rating. Even those not revolving around romance. I've seen this done so many times - every book in my country with gay characters automaticly goes into the gay bin and gets an article on "tolerance". It worries me, because if I ever decide to publish my novel where the narrator happens to be bi and lands with a man in the end, it will end up there. Not reaching the targeted audience at all - because it's not about romance - it's a crime novel.

Okay, did I go off topic? I'm bad at ranting.

[leskuh.livejournal.com]

That whole section about labeling books IRL is interesting to me, because at some point in that whole SS discussion there was a lot of talk about subgenres and I was actually not exactly sure if real world bookstores had a tendency to lump queer fiction together as something like a subgenre.

Next time I go into a bookstore I'm going to try looking at the romance section and see if I can find any gay fiction put among it's numbers without singling it out in a section all of its own.

[ladymirrabella.livejournal.com]

The bookstores in my town don't have such section - it's a conservative one, so no gays for you. We also have one major branch store, but I've never ventured to the romance side there. It's mostly the fault of the publishers and the marketing. When a book with lots of sex is published, even if it's not the main point, it gets marketed as ~controversial~. It, of course makes it sell better. Thus, the book with gay characters is intended to sell well with this audience.

I think I've seen only one author get away with kinky lesbian sex - it was a well-known and respected one. His book was about the division between the countryside and the cities in the 90s. However, it was dumped into the teen category :P - because the main character was 14. It definitely wasn't a book for kids - I read it when I was 13 and it scared the crap out of me.

[leskuh.livejournal.com]

Also, I think it truly sucks that your book would be categorized in such a way since, from the sound of it, the character's sexuality is so completely secondary to the plot.

Basically, separating stories by character's sexuality is just furthering this idea that people are locked into certain roles when it comes to their sexuality and that there are no gray areas instead of acknowledging that sexuality, while a part of a person, is only a fragment of a whole. Your character's sexuality is a part of hir and a part of the story, but it is not (from the sound of it anyway) the overreaching theme/genre.

[ladymirrabella.livejournal.com]

I've seen this being done with relation of race as well. I remember a similar discussion taking place in another secret community where the poster said a similar thing: they had a gay, black character and it was a fantasy book - it was not about any of those issues. In mine, the very main problem, besides the dead bodies, is that the narrator is a laying bastard - it kind of relates to his problems with people, but not really sexuality.