Discussion: Strong Female Characters

[strangetomato]

This is mostly for will_o_whisper, since we've had many a deep, meaningful conversation on the topic (and the same goes for beyondheroism__ and smjoshsims), but I thought it might be of interest to a number of you that I can thing of offhand, and maybe even more. It's this article from the latest metafandom post, titled Ladies, Please (Carry On Being Awesome) by sarahtales. It's more discussion on the idea that we hold female characters up to a different standard than male characters. There's also a link to another article within that one about the Bechdel test, which includes lists of series/stories that pass it (even mentioning videogames such as FFVI, an old favourite of mine).

In particular, I love the example of "Harriet Potter" from this article. Wouldn't Harry most likely have been universally loathed if he were a female protagonist? I really think there's a lot of truth in that. I'm reminded of our conversation on the same topic (Will_o and I), where I mentioned that I thought my take on Frances J. Worthington III would most likely be received very differently if he were female. We (female consumers of stories, more specifically) seem to have a much higher tolerance for bullshit from male characters. Being selffish, whiny, brooding, and/or shy (not to mention the other extreme of assertive, aka bitchy) take on a whole different flavour when the character is a female.

The Sims 2 is more limited when it comes to actual storylines for characters, given that it's an open-ended videogame where you're only given a backstory, but I think it does give us some good examples of strong female characters (depending on how you take them, since it places the gamer in the driver's seat). We are pretty lacking in a female equivalent of Don Lothario, though (there are female romance sims, but none that are linked to so many lovers, with a fiance and all), and I wonder if the term golddigger would even come up if Dina Caliente were male and Mortimer were female. Heheh - imagine that! (How do people relate to that gender-switched Plesantview you can download from MATY? The idea intrigues me, in that it really shouldn't make that much of a difference, should it? But it does.)

Personally, I'm just as interested in "weak" female characters, because the idea of all female characters having to be completely in control and kickass (but not too kickass) is very limiting and also unrealistic. By "strong", I mean well-developed and rounded, for better or worse. Like the author of the article, my own beef with the whole concept presented in the example of the female Harry Potter is that the dominant parameters for a strong female character are often very limiting. I want to see all kinds of female characters, especially weak and messy ones, shown in a sympathetic light. And maybe even as the main character, once in a while.

ETA: Same goes for female villains. I love a good ruthless female bad guy, but I guess that's sort of obvious by now.

 

Anyway, I thought it might be of interest to some of you. Feel free to discuss in the comments, if ya wanna.

Comments

[simnovoris.livejournal.com]

My own personal preference is towards female characters who are badass, possibly "too" badass. This is pretty strongly driven by my love of fantasy/action/scifi genres, where the hero kicks ass and takes names. Every now and then I like to think the Big Damn Hero/BAMF can look like me (because I am not like those heroes at all). But it makes me physically angry when people when people say a woman can't be a good character if she's weak or sensitive. The theory I've seen behind that is that a female character is usually seen to represent EVERY FEMALE CHARACTER EVERYWHERE EVER, so if she's weak, she's perpetuating stereotypes

This. Yes. I think men are accepted as individuals, as human beings first and foremost and men second, and thus male characters can be anything they want to be.

It's the same way with minority groups, just look at how homosexual characters were represented fifteen years ago. Still are to some extent. Always the incredibly trustworthy, loyal, sweet gay best friend who never had any sex ever and just stood there as a shoulder to cry on when the female lead needed to. (Melrose Place must be the perfect example of this.) Sometimes they died of AIDS, too. But of course the gay male can't be an asshole, that would mean all gay men are assholes.

[will-o-whisper.livejournal.com]

I think men are accepted as individuals, as human beings first and foremost and men second, and thus male characters can be anything they want to be.

This really sums things up as I've seen them explained, and as I've perceived them. An able bodied/minded straight white man isn't seen as any of those things, not in life and not in fiction. He's seen as person and a character, and people and characters can, as you said, be anything. Anyone falling outside that often becomes something "else": a Gay Politician, a Black Surgeon, a Woman Cop, as opposed to just a politician, surgeon, or cop. In books, t.v., whatever, they end up being seen as Female Characters, Gay Characters, Black Characters, *insert relevant aggrieved group here* Characters. And that puts a lot of pressure on those people and character to be Right, instead of just human.

And I'm not really sure how to fix that.

[meetme2theriver.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes, exactly. "Female" is a character trait, and as you said, so is black, gay, anything that falls outside the default white heterosexual male. Given any group in any mediocre standard fiction or movie, it will consist of something like 'the hero, the funny guy, the black guy and the woman'.

[cameoflage.livejournal.com]

A lot of the time, the funny guy is the black guy.