strangetomato | Discussion: TS4 Conversation Post

I really love, love, love the aesthetic, even the plastic hair everyone seems to hate. The whole style is so gorgeously soft and bright and fun! I don't have a problem with the lighting or objects so far but I'd have to see them in-game. There will be plenty of mods for it, though, no doubt.

Something I'm really happy/excited about that other people haven't mentioned so far is that you can give guys some actual body shape/definition. I'm very happy that we have a lot more diversity with all Sims, naturally, but it seems like EAxis was always happy to give female Sims more shape/definition (i.e. ~sexiness~) but were afraid to give dudes any shape other than "barrel chest". But all the TS4 Sims we've seen so far have had GOOD BODY SHAPES - natural, visually appealing, and diverse. And their clothes ACTUALLY FIT. I'm really liking all the clothes we've seen so far (cat vest cat vest) but I'm especially happy to see T-shirts that don't end weirdly at the navel and actually hang organically off the Sims' bodies. Potentially good styles in TS3 were completely ruined by having the totally wrong fit.

I'm interested in seeing how traits and moodlets carry over and mix with the new emotions system, if they do. Traits & moodlets were one of my favourite parts of TS3 gameplay so I hope they return, although I guess emotions could easily take the place of moodlets. I am a little worried, though, that the emotions system will be too "trigger happy", so to speak; while TS3 Sims could have multiple moodlets stack up (I'm happy about my promotion, but I also have a lot of stress right now, etc.), I'm afraid that emotions in TS4 will override each other based on whatever happened most recently and create unrealistic/jarring mood swings - "Woohoo! I just got promoted! I'm walking on air! I- wait, is that food rotten?? Ugh, GROSS. Now I'm mad!" and they won't get back their post-promotion high even though that should be running in the background for at least a few Sim days. There will probably also be mods for that, too.

Mostly I'm just looking forward to developing a totally new style of play! I'm really pleased to see how much it's borrowing from TS2.

I agree with you about the hair, but like many others, I don't love the new yellow-blond colour. It's just not the most appealing hue, in my opinion. I can't remember if there was another blond option, but hopefully we can recolour or replace it.

The body shaping in CAS is amazing, and the layers of body fat and muscle definition are separate sliders, so that's a huge improvement. I'll really excited about CAS! Even my SO, who isn't much interested in sim games, says he can't wait to mess around with it. (Good news for us all, because I think he'll make some fantastic sims! Which I will then share...)

I'm sure we'll look back at the clothing and sigh one day, because time marches on and styles do change (even fit - some of this stuff will seem way too fitted eventually), but they seem to have a lot of classic options there. "Style" vs. "fashion" if you know what I mean, and options for different ages and stages. The cat vest gives me so much hope for character stuff. Give me quirky, give me weird, give me unfashionable! I love having those options, and cc tends to let us down in this regard, most of the time.

I'm concerned that emotions have sort of replaced personality, in a sense. What's driving whether a sim gets a certain emotion in a certain situation? I wanted a much meatier personality system than three traits. Detailed in the way that the CAS is, with much broader range and subtle difference. I'll give their system a chance before I write it off, but it's not what I would have done (if I had any ability to program, LOL! Hard for me to talk...)

That said, the aspirations look great! Most of the (good) TS2 options, and some nice new ones. Nurture? Deviance? Yes, please! I wonder if Love is similar to Romance, or does that get covered by some of the traits, like fear of commitment? I love the Romance asp. in TS2, but it can be a little bit one-note that way.

I'm also looking to embrace it as a whole new game. I know now that I will always have TS2 (as others will always have TS3, if they love it), so that sort of apprehension of losing this game and community no longer hangs over my head at all. I'm just hoping to have a new game that I also love! :)

What Rocket said!

I'm very excited for it all!

Even though I'm not a builder, I'm really excited to try all of the new build mode options. I love that we can add a foundation after the house is already built and change its height. LOVE that we can add all of the windows at once and move their heights. I especially love that we will be able to move the actual building to a different spot on the lot. There have been plenty of times that I have built a house and realized that I could have placed it in a better spot but it was too late to change it.

I'm looking forward to September 2nd!

Mostly the CAT VEST!
I'm slightly worried about the lot limit, but my sims were never really huge community lot goers. And maybe this way it'll get me to actually play a whole city instead of doing random lengthy periods of time with one sim (and then they die of old age before their teenage sweetheart becomes an adult!)

The style is very Lego mixed with plasticine but I don't think I mind that.

Mostly I want it to be out so I can get some honest reviews from other players before deciding whether or not to be hyped about it...

My thoughts on personality systems, originally posted on Tumblr over a year ago (found here). I'll wait and see how well the TS4 system works, but this was how I felt about the TS2 vs. the TS3 systems:

"Okay, I'll warn you upfront that this is going to be long. I almost feel as though I should refine these ideas a little further and turn this into an actual essay (to be sent it to the game developers, perhaps?), but for now this is what I have on first pass.

Ideally, I would like to see a combination of the two ideas, but given a choice between the personality points + aspiration system and the traits system, I would go with the system in TS2 and work on making it more complex. I think it is already more complex and nuanced than the trait system, even in its TS2 form, and could be something truly remarkable if developed even further. I feel that traits should be something that are added to a sim in addition to that system and not as a replacement for it.

The five point personality system represents a continuum that every person can be placed somewhere on. Most real life systems of analyzing a personality use something similar. Currently in TS2, you only see major differences in three quadrants of the personality scale (from 0-3, 4-6, and 7-10), with some special behaviours for the extreme ends of the scale. If every single point on the scale came with specific behaviours, the system would become much more complex and interesting. Also, adding more personality categories would also result in added complexity. (I personally like the temperament trait system, which includes activity level, regularity/rythmicity, initial reaction, adaptability, intensity, mood, distractibility, persistence and sensitivity, and would love to see some elements of that system factored in.)

Aspiration is also a very interesting way to categorize sims, as I think most people can also be grouped according to their overarching values and life goals. I think this system needs improvement. Some, like Romance and Pleasure, are somewhat too specific and need to be broadened or refined, and Grilled Cheese is more of a precursor to a trait (and originally added as joke, so this makes sense), so it should be removed from that system and possibly turned into a trait as it should be. I think it would make sense to add a sort of altruistic aspiration or one relating to morality. All of these aspiration categories could have both positive and negative outcomes, depending on how the sim approaches it.

Those two systems combined, even as they exist in TS2, is already a very complex system. Add to that the interests (though these could have more relevance than conversation topics), hobbies, and turn ons/offs, and I think you have something that goes well beyond a system of five traits per sim.

For me, traits make more sense as an additional character detail, to be added after the big picture personality is determined. If they are the only thing that defines the sim, you can end up with a character with very extreme and often stereotyped behaviours, but with no detail at all to reflect aspects of personality that all of us share. Depending on which traits you select, you can have a very shallowly defined character, and this leads to some very specific traits being much less useful in that system and probably aren't used very often by many players. For example, how often does anyone use "never nude" after trying it out once as a novelty?

Traits seem to reflect mostly specific quirks and/or talents that people exhibit. Sometimes these may be a direct result of the person's personality (and could be determined that way more effectively), but other times not. I think that being able to select whether a sim is a "good kisser" or a "green thumb" is less important to me than deciding the fine tuning of how their mind works (personality), and the key values that drive the direction of their lives (aspiration). I could simply use my imagination for traits quite easily and be fine with that. It's fun to have those behaviours and animations included in the game, but I feel that should be included as a cherry on top and not replace the other system."

Edited 2014-06-25 16:11 (UTC)

I LOVE the hair! TS3 hair was way to stringy for my liking. I really like how they are giving us a middle ground between an open and closed world with the option of universal aging. That is what definitely sold me. I gave TS3 up because I couldn't control everything that was going on and because of that, I felt limited to only one family. It was like playing an RPG which is not what I want in the Sims. I'm really hoping TS4 will let me micromanage as much as I do in TS2.

qkkk------------------------- 0<q This was Mini-Meetme's contribution to the topic. Her very first typed "words"! But I like the way TS4 looks so far, with some things I worry a bit about - the depth of personality, emotions being too gimmicky, and why are teens the same height as adults?! I don't care about cars and pools, but I do wish they'd at least say "there are toddlers" soon, because I'm getting a tiny bit concerned. Also CAT VEST. <3 Edit: Oops - meant for it to be a reply to the main post and not the comment, oh well!

Edited 2014-06-25 17:12 (UTC)

I am very excited for TS4! I immediately liked the brighter, more cartoony look of it. Although I am one of the players who hate the look of the hair. It just looks too clumped and stiff to me, but maybe I'll like it better once I've seen it in action.

I'm most eager to play with gardening. It's my favorite feature from TS2 and TS3, but TS4 has Mendelian genetics! I cannot wait to see what kind of plants we get from that! I'm also excited to see how they altered collecting, since that was my absolute favorite favorite feature in TS3 (it's pretty much all I do!).

I'm not quite sure how I feel about emotions yet. I liked moodlets in TS3 and how any one Sim could have a mix of positive and negatives ones, but whichever ones were "biggest" would dictate their mood. But emotions...I don't know. From what I've read so far it seems like they can only feel on thing at time, and it'll last some amount of time before some other emotion comes in. Maybe that's wrong, and hopefully it is. Otherwise emotions will be very one dimensional.

Build mode! I hate building, but it looks like it'll be much easier to get a decent house and make changes to it! This is awesome for someone like me who generally just throws some rectangles together and adds an auto-roof. :P

The gardening has Mendelian genetics?! Okay, so the sims themselves surely must have a nice robust genetics system, complete with all sorts of recessives, right? I wish they'd talk about that in more detail. It's easily the thing I care the most about in the game.

I also enjoy gardening with sims very much, so that's great news! It sounds like it will be really fun to play with.

Yes, above all, I'm very excited! I'm sure anyone following me on Tumblr can tell. Haha!

As someone who is also not much of a builder, I really appreciate how easy they're making it. The options to automatically add furniture is brilliant, in my opinion. We'll still have the option to do it all manually, but this will limit how many empty boxes I'll end up with if I ever decide to try building on my own.

Being able to move the house is also wonderful! How many times have we wanted to do this with the premade lots in TS2?

I'm certainly hoping a more sophisticated genetics system is back, after the failure of TS3 in that department. I assume that there will be at least some basic genetics based on the CAS previews. Unless creating parents/siblings from a single Sim is a semi-random process without much science behind it. They really haven't told us much about how anything works, just that it's an included feature.

Here is a short video on genetics!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nrEtPITILU

Personally I'm looking forward to playing TS4 (but there's no way I'm gonna drop 500HKD if it's that much on box release - if they even release a box set at all).

(Rant coming up)

I'm really hoping they're keeping true to their "adding more content", because right now from what I've seen in videos, I could easily play this vanilla and be content. I'm loving the styles (oh thank god there seems to be less clothes that were dug up from the back abyss of the closets), I am stoked about the CAS (don't really care for the lack of CASt, since I didn't really like TS3 that much) and as far as the plastic hair goes - honestly? I think it looks a bit better than TS3 hairs. Textures are not any worse or better than TS2 or TS3, so I don't really understand why people hate them so much, but to each their own.

I'm a little concerned about the lack of confirmation of toddlers (not that I really like playing kids anyways, but still |D). They haven't said anything or been allowed to say anything about toddler age group. Am loving the fact that all clothes have maternity states! As for the lot limit thing, I rarely ever play community lots because it lags my computer quite a bit, so the less work for it the better in my book.

Interested in seeing how the emotions will play out; not entirely sure what to really think about them till I can actually experience it myself, but yes - I'm a bit excited :)

I'm quite excited about the game myself. I love the look of everything - the hair, the sims, the neighborhood. I'm a little worried about the glow look on some things though.

I'm really scared about the toddlers! I don't think they're even going to be in the game at this point. Will babies just magically grow into children? o.o

There was no toddler icon in the newer Video discussing genetics. That was pretty disheartening.

That video was also from E3, though, meaning that it was the same alpha CAS we've been seeing all along.

They just announced no toddlers. I am now very sad. :(

Yeah, that is just dumb. People were wanting more life stages and then they go and get rid of one.

Seriously?! Why on earth would they do that?

I am *super* excited for the new build mode! When I saw that, that's when I decided that I was going to get the game.

I also love the new CAS. I'm not crazy about the blonde hair color, but I actually think that the plastic-ness kind of works with all of the other hair colors? It doesn't really matter that much, because I'm sure there will be defaults to fix that. ;) I love all of the different body shapes, but I'm a little worried about the "molding like clay" aspect -- I don't have a very ergonomic computer/mouse set up, so holding down a mouse button and making tiny movements bugs my wrist (and thus, my short love affair with floor plan designers came to an end). But there are a lot of templates, so I might not even bother with that.

I'm really worried about the lot limit, though. (I guess we won't be able to do BACCs in this game?) And I just can't see how they could skip toddlers. Or why they'd want to do that, either.

Exactly! And it's beyond stupid to include young adults and not toddlers. Do they jump from babies to children, or have we even see babies yet? Maybe there's no babies!

What??? Are the babies just going to jump to children? Isn't that what happened in the Sims 1?

For the first time, I'm not pre-ordering or planning to buy it as soon as it comes out. I want to wait until the bugs are worked out if they ever are.

I've been really burned by The Sims 3. TS3 disappointed me on almost every level. I was so, so excited for it and then when it came it was a nightmare of random crashes and painfully slow gameplay. The ugly, goofy expressions on the sims themselves, along with the corncob-up-the-ass method of walking and the female's perpetual slouch I could look past... but I wasn't even able to PLAY a lot of the time because it would be so slow and choppy, and on my computer that shouldn't have happened.

I can remember getting so angry at the game that I literally yelled (to no one in particular, although I'm pretty sure I scared the dog) "WHAT THE HELL DO I HAVE TO DO, HAVE A COMPUTER DESIGNED BY NASA TO PLAY THIS GODDAMN GAME???"

It is so frustrating! I've never figured out how ANYONE has been able to get that game to run for any length of time without crashing or going slow/freezing periodically, or lots being unable to load, or content going missing, or sims going missing, or SOMETHING.

I know everyone always would say to download Twallan's mods, but IMO a game shouldn't have to have 3rd party content to do the most basic task of simply RUNNING. It's ridiculous. And there's EA Games, sitting back with the money I already spent on their piece of trash game that they won't bother to fix... and they expect me to be excited to fork over even more money for something that sounds like it has every potential in the world to be even worse?

Nope. Not gonna happen. I'm not the smartest person in the world with money, but even I know not to throw cash into a toilet and flush it.

However, I'll be following up on the communities and feedback from the people who are playing. I'm not saying I'll never buy it, but I won't be doing it right away.

I don't get that either. :(

That's wise. It's always a good idea to wait and get some feedback from those who buy the game right away. I'm pretty excited to try out the CAS, but I'm probably going to need to wait a while anyway. I have to be more discriminating about my purchases these days. (Too bad you can't rent games from the library. I do that with almost everything else!)

Have you heard about the lack of toddlers in the basegame (made official today)? I imagine you wouldn't be too pleased about that! Haha! (I laugh rather than cry, because come on, EA!)

Discussion: TS4 Conversation Post

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